Re: predicted vs. actual satisfaction / don't impose on a right minority
Mark parashakti108 at yahoo.com
Mon, 11 Apr 2005 23:18:49 -0000
--"denis bider" wrote:
> > > D: Is it acceptable for experts to choose a solution which is
NOT a solution which would yield the highest level of satisfaction
among people; in this case, method C?
> > -M: Who says that the people's choice would produce the greatest
level of satisfaction? This is only what the people would PREDICT
would produce the greatest level of satisfaction.
>D: I am aware of that distinction. In the above context, I meant
immediate satisfaction with the choice being made. Eventual
effectiveness of that choice was not part of the above question.
Rather, it was part of another one later on. To re-clarify the above
question: - if we agree that Condorcet is a method that relatively
objectively reflects the choice that the crowd (not the "mob", but
the people collectively, polled individually) want to make;...
-M: It looks to me like a sophisticated form of polling that extracts
a lot of information out of the participants.
>D:...-then, putting completely aside whether that choice is wrong or
correct; - is it philosophically correct for anyone to block that
choice and force another one, for whatever reason?
-M: Doesn't majoritarianism block the choice of 49%? There is a
reason that NO nations are organized as democracies. Most nations are
>D: I'm not quite convinced that the mobs in the French revolution
had a nationwide vote over whether they should ransack and loot
before they actually did so. I tend to think that, if asked to make
their decision in a poll, ransacking and looting is not quite what
they would choose to do.
-M: My understanding is that the direct-democracy set up conditions
of a weak state underwhich the people couldn't be controlled.
>D: Should the people; when polled correctly and their individual
opinions aggregated objectively; be treated as adults, or kids?
Adults, as in people with freedom of choice, even when it is wrong;
or kids, as in little beings requiring parental protection?
-M: They should definately be treated as KIDS. Time and time again
the masses prove themselves to be lemmings. They SHOULD NOT impose on
a right minority! Never again should a war-driving Bushmonkey be
elected, nor should a majority impose slavery. Denis, please kick the
>D: Furthermore, who's sure that the parents are right, and when does
the kid qualify to become an adult?
-M: I hope that this is a parallel to SD2. In SD2, votes are
endorsements of consent to be governed. The PageRank algorithm, by
following the chains of consent, finds the center of consent in a
human trust network. SD2 tries to find the rightest "parents"
possible. People can be adults in their private lives. Politically,
the lemmings are in need of supervision to keep from imposing on
-Mark, Seattle WA USA